海猫鸣泣之时吧 关注:55,832贴子:2,588,550

断断续续打完P5,来吐槽下

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ep4和ep5在我看来这个游戏的叙事就类似长篇漫画到了硬拖的阶段,靠新角色(比如魔女侧种种牛鬼蛇神)新系统(比如侦探)还有老角色的回忆来拖连载,就像是玩上古卷轴5主线打了个开头然后到删游戏都一直在推支线。我把这个游戏的内容分成三个部分,①人类侧的故事②魔女侧的故事③棋盘上的故事。
EP1到EP3的故事给我的体验是最好的,因为这三个章节“人类侧的故事”比重最高。经历三个篇章,看每个角色在绝望中不同的选择与挣扎,真的很能让人沉浸。同时篇幅不会很多的对于魔法的描写也让故事充满了神秘感,让人很想去了解故事的真相。用游戏里的话说就是,能让人感觉到爱。这个阶段战人还在否定魔法的存在,用现实逻辑去解释游戏中离奇事件的这个思路也相当有趣,因此到EP3为止“棋盘上的故事”也挺能让人沉浸的,即使基本称不上推理,只是两个人在打辩论。


IP属地:浙江1楼2024-11-14 18:13回复
    如果前面三个篇章我能打出“好评如潮”的评价,那么到EP4开始我觉得这个故事开始“多半好评”了。新人物缘寿开始加入战人和贝阿朵的游戏。缘寿这个角色我觉得还是相当重要的,引出了未来线,又引入了新的线索(其实是埋下了新的坑),故事更加的扑朔迷离。缘寿同时和玛莉亚强相关,补充了玛莉亚和她妈的故事,同时引出了“猫箱”这一重要概念和魔法的许多设定。
    但是EP4实在是太罗嗦了,并且随着游戏故事的重心逐渐倾斜到“魔女侧的故事”,乱七八糟的魔法人物变多,各种乱七八糟的特效,人物渐变消失瞬移,整个游戏直接开始群魔乱舞。魔女和人类方的直接接触,故事一转超能力战斗,最后杰西卡和让治互秒的结局更是是让人直呼逆天,很难不让人笑出来。前面三章还稍微存在的那种悬疑感,直接荡然无存。最后直接写死缘寿也让人觉得很浪费,我期待的未来线的展开也没有后续。


    IP属地:浙江2楼2024-11-14 18:13
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      EP4刚献祭了缘寿,萎了的战人一下子又行了,一下豪言要干朵阿贝了,然后朵阿贝又突然一转弱势,投降变植物人了,战人马上就又惺惺相惜,然后EP5里二人关系火速升温。战人的游戏目标从否定魔女变成守护缘寿马上又变成守护和朵阿贝的游戏。我除了遮沙避风了没有别的感受,什么斯德哥尔摩综合征。说白了就是我认为这个阶段故事转折实在是有够生硬。EP5两个大魔女下场接管游戏,同时也是最无聊的篇章,用游戏的话讲就是感觉不到爱。然后又虐夏妃,可惜这个游戏不是r18,看不到夏妃的CG(雾)。最失望的就是四个篇章了,EP5还是没有填坑。


      IP属地:浙江3楼2024-11-14 18:13
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        怎么说呢,海猫鸣泣之时确实是相当不本格推理的作品,如果ep1到3是龙七为了吸引人的铺垫的话,4到8才是他真正想写的东西,可以说后面确实……应该对你来说有些失望的)


        IP属地:湖南来自Android客户端4楼2024-11-14 20:07
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          ep4确实观感差很多,开头缘寿的部分我只要多刷就肯定要跳过的。而且谁对纱让和嘉朱感兴趣呀,我要看的是贝阿朵墙🗡️战人啊结果眼看战人就要立杆了,贝阿朵要去拉屎不做了


          IP属地:辽宁来自Android客户端5楼2024-11-14 20:27
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            以你的标准我觉得ep7和ep8会是“多半差评”


            IP属地:浙江来自iPhone客户端6楼2024-11-15 00:50
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              好像每个挑海猫毛病的都一口一个“这不推理”


              IP属地:湖北来自Android客户端7楼2024-11-15 01:19
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                建议别玩了,到结局你也只会认为浪费时间


                IP属地:湖北来自Android客户端8楼2024-11-15 02:10
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                  什么叫未来世界,缘寿代表的是现实世界。
                  现实就是六轩岛在那天炸平了,只有绘羽存活,绘羽直到死都没说出那天发生了什么。
                  ep4应该也解释了为什么会有那么多魔法战斗


                  IP属地:浙江来自Android客户端9楼2024-11-15 03:51
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                    海猫的故事其实使用魔法大战来暗语人类思想上的激烈对峙,每一个魔法人物都对应现实里的人物或者某种思想流派,因此很容易看的混乱。


                    IP属地:辽宁10楼2024-11-19 12:19
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                      其实所谓“魔女侧”的内容有不少都是在暗示或影射现实……而且掩盖棋盘真相的魔女幻想里其实有一些乍看之下是所谓“人类侧”的内容,反倒是EP4那种群魔乱舞算是很好看穿的一眼假……EP4也算是对一个棋盘通用诡计的滥用和提示。


                      IP属地:江苏来自Android客户端11楼2024-11-19 14:38
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                        其实我觉得ep5和ep6是最精彩的,在原本已经固化(我认为)的棋盘上加了新变数新玩法,而且我很喜欢胶布


                        IP属地:上海来自Android客户端12楼2024-11-25 19:48
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                          首先楼主别生气,能玩到4和5可以说是花了足够多的精力了,不可能是无端发癫(我觉得楼主也不会那么闲),楼主可能觉得有些虎头蛇尾?我举个例子,无意ky,脏翅膀的剧情也是有很多人认为是“虎头蛇尾”,但是我确认为这个结局是对于男主的性格(逃避)最为合理的剧情发展,但是合理并不意味这“观感好”。同样的,楼主认为的“ep4之后的剧情划分是依靠阵营划分进行的推进”,这样的理解逻辑其实并不适合于海猫,海猫的故事架构不是“不同阵营的人做了什么事最后怎么样了”,而应该是“同一个人对于一件事的思考模式的转变是其摇摆于不同阵营”(可以尝试思考一下大战,缘寿和贝阿朵的阵营变化,这里的阵营指的是幻想世界与现实世界),这样的架构使得必须要着重描写角色的思维模式的转变过程(参考现实大战和幻想大战的记忆恢复),随着阵营的不断切换以及更多的思维模式涌入,玩起来不可能会觉得精彩,这也是为什么相较于长篇小说,短篇小说,中度篇幅的剧情更受欢迎。总而言之,楼主对于海猫过于庞大的剧情量没有足够的时间进行处理,光顾着魔法爽了。。。


                          IP属地:辽宁来自Android客户端13楼2024-11-26 00:17
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                            客观来说海猫在一周目的时候后几个ep确实不如前几个精彩,后几个ep的叙事开始偏向浪漫主义风了(特指ep78)确实是需要一定的接受度,故事重心也从剧情偏向到了角色,但是如果真的能坚持看下去的话,大部分人还是能理解并接受这个故事的


                            IP属地:浙江来自Android客户端14楼2024-11-26 01:38
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                              from what you've said, i guess you have no patience finishing the rest of this awesome series, please allow me to take the liberty of spoiling you the truth of Umineko...
                              the truth is quiet bitchin and faggy, just like you anyway, to put it bluntly,: Beatrice, Shannon, and Canon are actually the one and same person. in another words, Shannon, who's true name's Sayo, dresses herself as Canon the Boy Scout, and Beatrice the Golden Witch. you must be asking that same freakin' question as i did when i first learned about the truth: How could a girl with big boobs like Shannon turn herself into a damn Boy Scout? Guess what, because that freakin' massive bosom is fake...
                              actually, pleaae forgive my crude antics, obviously i didn't ask that stupid question. i read the whole episode 7 from start to end, of course i know why and it has a very solid reason. and when i said that the truth is bitchin' and faggy, undoubtedly i was lying. Umineko is a great work, i totally enjoy it. but still, the part i said that you are bitchin' and faggy wasn't joking AT ALL!!!
                              Sorry, but you are still bitchin' and faggy...
                              so where we are now, oh right. Shannon, the amazing dresser, the tragic heroine, a brillient mystery-genre composer, the source of Rokkenjima Blast, the cruel Grim Reaper, but also, the most kind-hearted damsel in distress, an outcast of God who's suffering physically and mentally, twisted by the whims of fate, and finally seduced by the devil...
                              so i would give you a quick run-through of the truth;
                              1870s - Meiji Restoration, Ushiromiya family became rich.
                              1890s - After the Sino-Japanese War, Taiwan was ceded to Japan. Ushiromiya Kinzo's family moved to Taiwan.
                              1923 - Great Kanto Earthquake, Ushiromiya family became sucks becaus of it.
                              1920s - Kinzo were chosen to be the family head but he's literally a puppet.
                              1940s - Kinzo joined the Japanese army despite he were married and got 4 kids. what a dick!
                              1943 - Because once majored in architecture or whatever in college and shit, Kinzo were saved from being sent to frontline as cannon fodder, instead he were assigned to a team that were sent to Rokkenjima for a special mission, lucky bastard, oh by the way, the special mission was: to set up 100 ton of heavy bombs under the island as trap to blow the hell of the Allied Forces should they send their troops to Japan's homeland. And since we all know from history books that the Allied Forces never tried any landing operation over Japan, intead they air-raided Japan thoroughly and finaly ended the war with 2 atomic bombs, so it's safe to say that the 100 ton of explosive was actully a lost course.
                              1944 - a damaged Italian submarine arrived at Rokkenjima with 10 ton of gold and 20 or so Italians asking for help. Gramdma Beatrice was also in this submarine. and since Kinzo was the only Japanese soldier who could speak English. Kinzo and Grandma Beatrice become friends. and Kinzo fell in love with her despite he were married and fathered 4 kids, what a shigbag. and then Kinzo dicked out a scheme in which he pitted the Japanese soldiers against the Italian soldiers. then he waited in the dark with Grandma Beaterice until most of them were dead then Kinzo showed up and killed the rest of motherfuckers who knew about the gold. then Kinzo left the island with Grandma Beatrice.
                              1950s - Ushiromiya family became rich again because Kinzo seized the golden opportunity of Korean War.
                              1950s - Kinzo bought the island of Rokkenjima, and built 2 big mansions. one is outside the woods, lived by he and his family, the other is deep in the woods, lived by his lover, Grandma Beatrice.
                              1950s - Kinzo had sex with Grandma Beatrice. Beatrice was pregnant after that, but died of giving birth to her daughter, also known as Mama Beatrice.
                              1960s - Kinzo had sex with his very own daughter, Mama Beaterice, Mama Beatrice also pregnant after it, but she didn't died of giving birth, and she gave birth to a baby boy.
                              1968 - Ushiromiya Rosa accidentally encountered Mama Beatrice when she ventured deep in the woods, Rosa entered the mansion in the woods and briefly became friends with Mama Beatrice. Can't resist her curiosity towards the outside world, Mama Beatrice left the mansion with Rosa, but her brave adventure ended sadly with her untimely death when she fell from the cliff by accident.
                              1969 - Ushiromiya Natsuhi was demanded by Kinzo to adopt a baby boy, the child of the late Mama Beatrice, a basdard of Kinzo himself and his daughter. due to hysterically mental breakdown caused by not blessed with any child after 10 year's marriage, Natsuhi pushed a maid off the cliff while the said maid was holding the very baby boy. the maid died instantly, but the boy survived with his genitals severely damaged.
                              1970s - under Genji's arrangement, the magically survived baby boy was given a name: Yasuda Sayo, and sent to a Ushiromiya sponsored orphanage “Fukwin House”, and raised as a girl.
                              1976 - Yasuda Sayo, with the blessed name Shannon, was admitted to work at Ushiromiya family as a maid in a tenderly young age.
                              1970s - Shannon fell in love with Ushiromiya Battler.
                              1980 - after his mother's death, Ushiromiya Battler stopped attending the family meeting util 1986
                              1980s - after losing her first love, Shannon suffered severely mental illness. actually i think it's a pressure explosion, consider that she's been an orphan her whole life, being picked up by her fella maids, and then all of sudden her final only hope was taken. i know some piece of shit might say, “hey it's cool, i wouldn't suffer any mental illness just because of this, cuz i have a strong heart”, okay okay, you are strong, but could you keep you mouth shut when you friends play sodomy on your ass cuz i don't hear your bitchin' noise.
                              1983 - Shannon started dressing as Canon, with the help of Genji, Kumazawa and Nanjo, she successfully pulled if off and let everyone believed that Canon did exist. at the same time, Shannon created a persona, who performed the role of a witch based on the Rokkenjima's tales. then by imagination and self-deception, Shannon entrusted this witch persona with her love towards Battler, thus, Shannon herself could regain her peace by pretending everything's okay whereas everything's not okay.
                              1984 - Shannon solved Kinzo's epitaph and became Beatrice the Golden Witch, also inherited the 10 ton of gold which was still hid under the island. Kinzo died finally.
                              1985 - Shannon started dating Ushiromiya George. meanwhile, Canon started having a tacit love affair with Ushiromiya Jasika. and Beatrice the Golden Witch befriended with Ushiromiya Maria, they create their own magical world.
                              1986 - Battler returned to family. George decided to propose to Shannon. Because the internal conflict, Shannon no longer had her peace. in her mind, Beatrice was still deep in love with Battler, but Shannon can't easily let go of George either, and Canon was begging for a chance of he with Jesika. three souls were locked in a mortal conflict. although everything she wanted was to find happy, but since she was originally a boy, so she couldn't have children, which rendered her affection with George impossible. and although she was actually a boy, due to the early incident she went through as a child, it's hard to believe that Canon and Jesika's love could bear any fruit either. and finally, since Shannon herself was actually a child of Kinzo, she was in fact George, Battlsr, and Jesika's aunt. her affection with any of them would be consider incestuous. consumed by despsir and hatred towards her fate, a crazy thoughts shot through Shannon: kill them all... Kill every last piece of shit who made me suffer...but is that really okay, is that really what i want? to make the ones i love suffering as i do?
                              finally, Shannon decided to make a gamble, the rule is simple: to solve the epitaph, solve it, everyone happy, fail, everyone died.
                              1986 - Rokkenjima Blast - this is what happened that fateful day in Rokkenjima,
                              Maria read the witch's letter to everyone after dinner.
                              the adults decided to try to solve the epitaph.
                              George propose to Shannon, Shannon accepted the ring.
                              the adults solved the epitaph, Shannon dressed up as Beatrice and gave adults the money and the bombs under Rokkenjima.
                              adults argued about the money and gold.
                              conflict broke up, Eva killed Natsuhi.
                              Hidyoushi killed Clauss
                              Kyrie killed Rosa, Hidyoushi, Eva and Beatrice, but Eva and Beatrice later survived as the round was mix in duds.
                              Rodulf killed George and Gonta.
                              Kyrie killed Jessika, Nanjo, Genji, Kumasawa, Maria
                              Eva killed Kyrie and Rodulf.
                              Beatrice saved Battler.
                              after the bombs exploded. Eva, Battler, and Beatrice survived.
                              Beatrice and Battler escaped the island by boat.
                              Beatrice jumped overboard, attempting to commit suicide, Battler jump too, trying to save the witch...
                              Eva became the sole inheritor of Ushiromiya's wealth.
                              the end.
                              i am pretty sure no one's gonna read this, and that's the sole reason why i wrote this. cuz this place has too much piece of shits and sons of bitches who know nothing but satiating their own hypocrite morality. yeah you may think i sound like one of them, but trust me, while i am one or not isn't the issue here, for the truth is,.there are really a bunch of bitchin' ass here, so arguing is meaningless and... if you want advice, i would tell you to right anything in english, cuz that way only educated dickhead would reply you, and you two golden spoon can rot in the septic tank together.... that was a joke, now serious time, the real advice is, be a decent and kind-hearted person...


                              IP属地:广东15楼2024-11-26 06:17
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